- EO Charging supplies a turnkey service for automobile fleets, together with all of the {hardware}, software program and repair parts of the electrification stack. President and Chief Business Officer John Walsh instructed us that the software program and upkeep layers of the stack are the keys to charger reliability.
- Fleets typically overestimate the quantity of energy they’ll have to hold their EVs charged. Detailed modeling within the early levels of a undertaking, together with good vitality administration, can assist a fleet keep away from the prices and delays concerned with upgrading a utility connection.
- Totally different fleets have completely different infrastructure wants. EO charging provides month-to-month cost plans based mostly on the variety of chargers, kilowatt-hours delivered, or miles traveled, with a purpose to deal with completely different buyer wants.
Q&A with EO Charging’s John Walsh
How is offering charging infrastructure for EV fleets like working a web page or a mobile phone community? All of those worthy endeavors (amongst others) rely on a stack, which is a hip manner of describing a system of interrelated {hardware} and software program merchandise that operate collectively.
Some layers of the stack could also be easy, and others could also be advanced. Some could also be seen as commodities, and others might rely on extremely specialised proprietary know-how. Some could also be set-it-and-forget-it methods which can be anticipated to work easily, and others could also be—for need of a greater time period—a ache within the neck.
In an rising discipline reminiscent of EV charging infrastructure, it might be exhausting for potential prospects to determine how the completely different layers of the stack match collectively, and which layers require particular consideration. So as to add to the confusion, the solid of characters is giant, and the relationships amongst them will be advanced—just like the checklist of dramatis personae in a Victorian novel. Some firms concentrate on one layer of the stack, and others supply a turnkey bundle, offering all of the services and products themselves and/or subcontracting with different companies.
What’s the perfect course for a fleet operator to steer? Does it make sense to combine and match completely different firms for various layers of the stack, or is it higher to contract with a turnkey supplier, maybe for a hard and fast month-to-month worth? For some solutions, Charged sat down with John Walsh, President and Chief Business Officer of EO Charging, who defined how the layers of the EV fleet charging infrastructure stack match collectively, and provided some suggestions for patrons.
Charged: What sort of prospects does EO Charging serve?
John Walsh: We do all depot charging, so our goal prospects are transit authorities, college districts and fleets, reminiscent of Amazon, FedEx, UPS, DHL. Additionally, the truck OEMs which can be beginning to come on-line now—Daimler, Bollinger, Workhorse—we’re concentrating on these as effectively.
The issue on this trade is that everybody’s all concerning the cupboard and the {hardware}. That’s the most important problem with charging in the present day—everybody thinks, “Man, if I may simply get that wall field on the wall or get that charger within the floor, I’ve bought what I want.” And it’s solely the start.
Charged: You had been previously Chief Business Officer at Proterra, an organization that we’ve written about rather a lot. I for one thought it was an excellent firm, and I used to be shocked when issues turned pear-shaped. What occurred?
John Walsh: What occurred to Proterra via the lens of John Walsh could be very disappointing. I left the corporate over a 12 months in the past, a little bit bit earlier than the storm hit, as a result of I noticed the ship sinking. We went public, we did a SPAC, we had quite a lot of capital that bought burned via very quick, and…simply mismanagement, I might say, greater than something.
However don’t hand over on Proterra. The corporate was offered in three items—battery methods, chargers and buses—and there are three completely different homeowners now. Proterra had the perfect battery know-how on the planet, and it’s nonetheless the perfect battery know-how. There are quite a lot of firms that may use their battery methods and have quite a lot of success. I believe the Volvo Group [which bought Proterra’s battery business] will prosper via the know-how that was given beginning by Proterra.
Sorting via the stack
Charged: For fleets, there are quite a lot of items to the charging puzzle. You’ve gotten your personal proprietary software program, and also you supply a full turnkey bundle for fleets.
John Walsh: We do. It’s referred to as a stack, and it’s actually six easy factors.
The primary half is session, the place you sit down and perceive the utility, perceive the depot.
The second piece is your design and your set up—you dig up the bottom and you place the chargers in.
The third bullet is the {hardware}—we do enterprise with about six OEM {hardware} firms. And to us, it’s a buyer’s alternative. We’ll give them what we really feel like are some good alternate options based mostly on the facility ranges that they want. Whenever you discuss to EO Charging, you’re not speaking to ABB, Heliox or Siemens—you’re speaking to all of them as a result of we’re hardware-agnostic.
The fourth piece is the software program. And this is part of the stack that’s actually vital that folks neglect. The software program is your fourth bullet, then your fifth bullet is upkeep “Oh, wow. You imply you must preserve the chargers?” Properly, you should preserve your automobile, proper? So, completely.
After which the final piece, and possibly an important piece we’ve, is a technical operations middle [TOC]. When you’ve got a mobile phone, there’s a technical operations middle that’s resetting your cellphone all day lengthy, and also you don’t even realize it. That’s what we’re capable of do—we will see that charger within the floor.
We’ll do elements of the stack a la carte. The one factor we is not going to decouple is the software program and the upkeep. If you happen to decide a software program supplier and a separate upkeep supplier, then it’s two completely different cellphone calls. That’s what prospects are pissed off with. One cellphone name for that full stack—design it for me, put it within the floor, give me the {hardware}, preserve it for me for 10 years—that’s the answer they’re searching for, and that’s what we do.
Considered one of our unique traders was an organization referred to as Amazon, they usually demanded 99% uptime. And that’s what we provide prospects. You can ask Amazon, “Inform me about EO, and inform me about your uptime,” they usually’d say it’s 99.7. They may inform you that, not us—they’re a really demanding buyer.
“We’ll do elements of the stack a la carte. The one factor we is not going to decouple is the software program and the upkeep.”
Depot chargers are dependable, aren’t they?
Charged: Charger reliability is a scandal, and I strongly suspect that quite a lot of the issues are as a result of there is perhaps half a dozen firms and organizations concerned with a undertaking.
John Walsh: You’ve hit the nail on the pinnacle. We do associate with sure prospects or sure firms. For engineering, we would associate with somebody. I’ll associate on the prime of the stack, however as soon as it’s within the floor, it’s all me. It’s my software program, it’s my upkeep, it’s my TOC, and that’s the important thing to reliability that everybody’s complaining about.
Charged: Now, I do know you don’t do public charging, you solely do fleet depot charging. I’m guessing the latter doesn’t have as many challenges with reliability. Am I proper?
John Walsh: No.It’s simply as dangerous. I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I used to be as soon as at an APTA [American Public Transportation Association] assembly—all transit businesses—and I requested them, “Who has 90% reliability at your depots? Who has 80% reliability?” It was after I bought to 70% and 60% that folks began elevating their arms. It’s not a quantity that we’re making up.
If we go to a buyer they usually say, “We’ve bought three completely different manufacturers of chargers on this large depot as a result of we purchased them at completely different occasions, and we ended up shopping for ABB, Siemens and Heliox,” we are saying we don’t care. They could have to have a look at three screens. They’ve three completely different software program packages and three completely different upkeep methods. With us, it’s all on one display screen. I believe that’s actually what our secret sauce is, and that’s the most important promoting level of our firm—the {hardware} is agnostic to the software program, and we’re capable of see all the things in a single spot from an operations middle.
“I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I as soon as requested a bunch of transit businesses about reliability at their depots, and it was solely after I bought to 70% and 60% that folks began elevating their arms.”
For these about to affect
Charged: How about some handy-dandy suggestions for fleet operators? What are a number of the issues that may go flawed, and the way can they keep away from them?
John Walsh: The one you hear essentially the most is “You want to pay money for your utility yesterday.” And to me, that’s a broad reply. What does that imply? Once I attain the utility, what do I ask them? There’s so many fleet operators, huge, huge firms, that simply don’t know what to do.
What’s the distinction between a UPS facility and an Amazon facility? They’re in all probability 50 years aside. UPS, they’ve been round for an extended, very long time, in order that they have buildings that they by no means thought they’d electrify. Then you’ve got Amazon—most of their buildings are model new, and they’re making ready for electrification. So, the error I believe will get made is, for those who take UPS for example, they’re going to say, “We bought 100 vans. Now we have to cost all of them. We’ve bought one megawatt of energy coming into the constructing. We’d like 5.” And they’ll instantly contact that utility, as a result of that’s what everybody tells them to do, and inform them, “I want 4 megawatts extra energy.” And that’s once you hear everyone busting out laughing at the back of the room.
Properly, they don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they assume. We do quite a lot of modeling for patrons. “That is what number of automobiles we’ve. That is the vitality storage on board, and that is how a lot energy we’ve on the depot.” We mannequin for them the scale charger they want, however we additionally assist them handle the vitality as soon as it comes into the constructing. I ship it in two completely different instructions. I ship it to the power conveyor belts, and I ship it to the chargers, however I’m not going to cost these EVs all day lengthy. I’m going to cost them at particular occasions of night time at a sure energy stage.
Don’t over-capitalize the undertaking. Do your homework and take into consideration how a lot energy you actually need into that facility. You may work with the utility on that, but in addition work with firms like EO that can assist you determine that piece out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash—and I’m speaking tens of millions of {dollars}—to place energy right into a constructing that you simply’re by no means going to make use of. That’s in all probability the most important mistake I’ve seen in doing 200 deployments on the depot aspect.
If we hear a buyer say, “Properly, we’re simply doing a pilot,” we are saying, “Okay, however the place do you go from there?” They are saying, “I’m going to do 10 buses, and I’m going to do 10 chargers, and let’s see the way it goes.” That’s actually not a good suggestion. What we’re doing quite a lot of proper now with prospects that did that 10 years in the past, we’re ripping all the things out—rip and exchange. Now, the know-how’s modified, I’ll offer you that. However on the identical time, they actually didn’t do a correct job of setting themselves as much as scale.
There was a transit authority up in Canada that constructed a brand-new facility, 400 buses underneath one roof. They knew from the start they had been going to cost 400 buses, however they solely did 60 to start with. However the facility, the lanes had been arrange so they might simply add the chargers as they went alongside. Every little thing within the facility was able to go. Planning for scale is one thing that’s tremendous, tremendous vital.
“Fleets don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they assume. Don’t over-capitalize the undertaking. Work with firms like EO that can assist you determine that out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash to place energy right into a constructing that you simply’re by no means going to make use of.”
Charged: I think (I’ve a suspicious thoughts about these items) that 10 years in the past, a few of these fleets thought, “We bought a authorities grant, so we’ll do a pilot, and that’ll fulfill the greenies, after which we’ll return to enterprise as regular.”
John Walsh: That’s proper. I believe that’s precisely what they had been considering. Is it political? It may be in some circumstances the place we’ve to take care of a authorities mandate. What I really like about Florida, there’s so many purchasers which can be going electrical that don’t must. One of many first electrical fleets within the US was Star Metro, the transit authority in Tallahassee, and people buses function on Florida State’s campus. Now, these buses, 14 years in the past, they solely went 30 miles on a single cost. How did they handle that? They used en route charging. Properly, in the present day, on an electrical bus, you’ll be able to go 250 miles. Now, their chargers are on the depot, like an everyday fueling station. They replenish at night time, they usually run all day lengthy.
Cost your fleet for one month-to-month charge
Charged: You supply an entire turnkey service for a month-to-month cost. How does that work?
John Walsh: We’ll bundle our Stage 2 charger with the software program, the upkeep, the technical operations middle, and cost one month-to-month charge—it’s $59. That bundle is de facto enticing to quite a lot of fleet prospects.
We provide a month-to-month cost by charger, by kilowatt-hour, or by mile. A buyer can select their program, as a result of their wants fluctuate. Some prospects have quite a lot of idle time. Some prospects are placing quite a lot of miles on the market. Some are charging and discharging fairly a bit as effectively. I’ve DHL in New York Metropolis, they usually say, “We don’t want quite a lot of batteries on our vans, as a result of, in all the day, we would go 20 miles,” as a result of they’re caught in site visitors in Manhattan. That’s completely different from any person in Kansas that is perhaps working a good distance. So, we wish to give these choices to prospects and allow them to select.
Charged: Are there some conditions the place a buyer assumes they’re going to want DC quick chargers, however they can get by with the Stage 2 and keep away from a number of the procurement bottlenecks?
John Walsh: Yeah, that’s precisely what occurs. Now we have our personal charger referred to as the Genius Fleet, which is a Stage 2 charger, 19.2 kilowatts. We really feel prefer it matches with quite a lot of fleet prospects as a result of they’re going to make use of a Rivian van or a Ford E-Transit that has roughly 100 kWh of storage on board. The dimensions of the charger is de facto enticing—you don’t must get right into a Stage 3, which will be very costly. And the neat factor concerning the Genius is we’ve them in stock. There’s no ready on switchgear or charger {hardware}. If a buyer says, “I want 10 chargers,” we will ship them inside 24 hours. Now we have them warehoused across the nation.
We make our personal Stage 2 charger in Europe, however the one we’ve right here within the US is made for us by IoTecha. After which on the DC charger aspect, ZEROVA, Kempower, ABB, a number of of those producers, once you see our label on it, you must stroll across the again of the charger to see that it’s any person else’s. We try this simply from a branding standpoint, however once more, we’re agnostic to the {hardware}. So long as it’s OCPP 1.6-compliant and we get good service from them, we’re completely satisfied.
The same old questions on developments
Charged: Individuals are predicting a wave of consolidation within the EVSE {hardware} market. There’s quite a lot of firms, and a few them lately went belly-up: Tritium, Freewire.
John Walsh: I believe it’s a development. There’s completely going to be consolidation. With fleet, college bus and transit, that {hardware} has to fulfill Purchase America requirements. That implies that that charger must be inbuilt america, and it has to have 70% US content material. That shrinks down the variety of firms. Just lately, you in all probability noticed that Siemens purchased out Heliox. We expect that’s a superb factor as a result of we predict Heliox has a extremely good product and actually good service.
Are there too many charger firms? I don’t know that there’s ever an excessive amount of of something. I might say we’d like the appropriate variety of charger producers that construct good merchandise and may service their merchandise. And that’s the place EO is available in on the service and upkeep aspect. However I believe consolidation is totally going to occur.
Charged: How far alongside are we with the Megawatt Charging System?
John Walsh: Now we have a bunch of them within the floor. We provide a 1.44-megawatt charging system, and I find it irresistible as a result of it’s perhaps half the scale of a van, and it matches within the nook of the depot. I can cost 40 automobiles on one charger, and I can put in a 60 kW, a 150 kW output. I can combine and match it for a buyer, which is very nice. It’s a cost-saver, it’s simpler to keep up, and it permits a buyer to actually scale as a result of they put that within the nook of a depot, after which they will add one other one and one other one, they usually can actually get their complete fleet electrified with out chargers taking on house.
Charged: So, MCS permits you not solely to cost one automobile at a super-high fee, but it surely means that you can cut up that up. Is that one thing you’ll be able to’t do with CCS?
John Walsh: You may, however you’re restricted—let’s say you’re taking a 150 kW charger, you’ll be able to put two dispensers on it, however that’s all you are able to do. On this one MCS charger, I can put 40 dispensers, and I can cost concurrently or sequentially. It actually offers you versatility.
Charged: What about V2G? Is it nonetheless a pilot-stage know-how, or are you aware of some business functions?
John Walsh: We’re partnering with BorgWarner on V2G. I do know them rather well as a result of they acquired Rhombus, which was one in all our companions at Proterra. They do have the know-how, but it surely’s nonetheless very a lot in a pilot stage. The college bus market actually desires it, they usually need it at scale. I believe V2G will get pushed by the client. Dwelling right here in Florida, if we’ve a storm and the electrical energy goes down, effectively, I’ve bought an influence station proper right here—we’ve bought 1,000 college buses sitting there stuffed with vitality. I simply must have the potential to drag it off that bus and into one other automobile or a facility. However I nonetheless assume it’s in pilot—I can’t offer you an instance of a business software the place I’m seeing it at scale but.
